Voices of sanity in wilderness

Kannu

Here's a heartfelt letter of thanks from a Muslim man who thanks Hindus for helping his discriminated community. 

You can see the discrimination all over the world. But you personally should fight this. Have a gf. Or friend. So what if she he is a Muslim. Are they good? That's all you need to know and you don't need no stinking book or political party to tell you so. This is why I hate the Bjp. It's primarily filled by bigots. Hardly any of them exhibit any intelligence and their followers are usually idiotic as well. And the funny thing is that for a Hindu party, most don't know Sanskrit or have ever read any Hindu books. So they have no frikking idea what Hinduism is either. 

But as I said you don't need to read a religious book be a good person. 

Love

Baba

Voices of sanity in wilderness | TwoCircles.net
http://twocircles.net/2013apr14/voices_sanity_wilderness.html

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Even as communalism grows in India, some of the fiercest voices raised in defence of Muslims happen to be those of Hindus

By Aijaz Zaka Syed,

Every time I despair of the land of the myriad hues and contradictions that is India, every time it’s many heroes give me fresh hope. And every time I stick out my neck to share the insecurities and concerns of my tribe and other dispossessed, I receive loads of fan mail most of which cannot be reproduced in these columns. Clearly, the Net is full of all sorts of fish. The comforting anonymity of cyberspace removes all inhibitions revealing our true colours.

But there are also those out there who never cease to amaze you with their generosity of spirit and ability to feel others’ pain. One such blessed soul is my friend Shashank Sharma, who heads a multinational IT giant. (I hope he will forgive this impudence to name him).

We have a definition of an Expert on Islam

There are so many people who purport to speak for Islam. So how do you determine who is an expert and who isn't? Well, now we have a definition. You are supposed to have a formal academic qualification from an accredited institution of Higher education in the West or an institution of higher education in a Muslim Majority Country that ranks amongst the world’s top 500 universities.

heh. that basically counts out pretty much everybody, eh? Most of the sheikhs, all the mullah’s, all the chaps will be disqualified. Heck, did you know that Al Azhar isnt on the list of 500 universities either? King Saud, King Abdulaziz and King Fahd Universities are there. And we know what’s coming out of there.

Why do people do this? its like stupid…instead of engaging with the substantive parts of Islamophobia (which does exist), they go for these ad hominem attacks. Idiots. There is a very good reason why the Prophet did not allow or put into operation or Islam allows a priestly class. Every person is allowed his own relationship with God and speak of that.

Religious Practices Among Islamic Immigrants: Moroccan and Turkish Men in Belgium

One of the most common mistakes people make is to assume that Muslims are monolithic. For that matter, the far too many people also think that the “west” is monolithic. I attended a book launch at SOAS recently where there was this book on framing Muslims. I have to admit that I wasn't really impressed. The whole concept to me sounded very woolly and from what the authors said, there was clear ideological bias. So I dont think I will be buying the book.

Speaking to somebody after the event, I explained why I think this was so. You see, man is a social animal and will form social groups (so far so good). Social groups are formed based upon two concepts. First is to define what they are and second is what they are not. So when, for example, the blurb on amazon says something like this, “Can Muslims ever fully be citizens of the west?” that immediately tells me that the authors themselves are now guilty of framing Muslims themselves. When the basic research question is not independent, then the entire argument is a solution in search of a problem. In effect, they are themselves part of the problem of stereotyping. You might as well as ask, Can people who speak Serbo Croat or whatever fully be citizens of the west? They are not monolithic.

They also do not consider the flip side of stereotyping, the one done on the West. The West is also not a monolithic character? Mixing together everybody from Chile to China, India to Scotland aint making sense to me. No doubt stereotyping happens. No doubt framing happens. All I am saying is that that is human behaviour and there are many more dimensions to this than what the authors consider.

And then Orientalism was brought into the picture and that was the death kneel for me. I dont understand that orientalism logic at all but what do I know.

But I was reminded of an interesting article which I read last year. Here is the link. and abstract:

This study examines the religious participation of Islamic immigrants in Belgium using data from the Migration History and Social Mobility Survey collected in 1994–1996 from 2,200 men who had immigrated from Turkey and Morocco. Religious participation is measured as mosque attendance, fasting during Ramadan, and sacrificing a sheep at the Festival of Sacrifice. Results show that the religious participation of Islamic immigrants depends on both premigration and postmigration characteristics. Religious participation is higher among immigrants who: (1) attended a Koranic school in their country of origin, (2) were socialized in a religious region of their home country, (3) received little schooling, (4) currently live in an area of Belgium with a greater number of mosques, and (5) associate with a high number of co-ethnics. These results suggest that the religious participation of Islamic immigrants in Belgium is an outcome of characteristics unique to immigrants as well as processes common among the general population.

Curious, eh? to extend the results of this survey in Belgium and to try to answer the question raised in this book, one not only has to look at what better integration mechanisms to do in Belgium but also the factors behind the country of origin of the immigrants. (assuming that the level of religiousity is somehow linked to integration).

But complicated stuff and no simple answers. But look at this article on why are Jews so powerful.

Why are the Jews so powerful ? By: Dr Farrukh Saleem. (The writer is a Pakistani, an Islamabad-based freelance columnist.) January 12, 2009

Posted by ibnmahadi in Uncategorized.
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There are only 14 million Jews in the world; seven million in the Americas , five million in Asia, two million in Europe and 100,000 in Africa . For every single Jew in the world there are 100 Muslims. Yet, Jews are more than a hundred times more powerful than all the Muslims put together. Ever wondered why ?

Jesus of Nazareth was Jewish. Albert Einstein, the most influential scientist of all time and TIME magazine’s ‘Person of the Century’ was a Jew; Sigmund Freud — id, ego, and super-ego, the father of psychoanalysis was a Jew; So were Karl Marx, Paul Samuelson and Milton Friedman.

Here are a few other Jews whose intellectual output has enriched the whole humanity:

• Benjamin Rubin gave humanity the vaccinating needle.
• Jonas Salk developed the first polio vaccine.
• Alert Sab in developed the improved live polio vaccine.
• Gertrude Elion gave us a leukaemia fighting drug.
• Baruch Blumberg developed the vaccination for Hepatitis B.
• Paul Ehrlich discovered a treatment for syphilis.
• Elie Metchnikoff won a Nobel Prize in infectious diseases.
• Bernard Katz won a Nobel Prize in neuromuscular transmission.
• Andrew Schally won a Nobel in endocrinology (disorders of the endocrine system; diabetes, hyperthyroidism. Aaron Beck founded Cognitive Therapy (psychotherapy to treat mental disorders, depression and phobias).
• Gregory Pincus developed the first oral contraceptive pill.
• George Wald won a Nobel for furthering our understanding of the human eye.
• StanleyCohen won a Nobel in embryology (study of embryos and their development) .
• Willem Kolff came up with the kidney dialysis machine.

Over the past 105 years, 14 million Jews have won 15-dozen Nobel Prizes while only three Nobel Prizes have been won by 1.4 billion Muslims (other than Peace Prizes).

Stanley Mezor invented the first micro-processing chip. Leo Szilard developed the first nuclear chain reactor. Peter Schultz, optical fibre cable; Charles Adler, traffic lights; Benno Strauss, Stainless steel; Isador Kisee, sound movies; Emile Berliner, telephone microphone and Charles Ginsburg, videotape recorder.

Famous financiers in the business world who belong to Jewish faith include Ralph Lauren (Polo), Levis Strauss (Levi’s Jeans), Howard Schultz (Starbuck’s) , Sergey Brin (Google), Michael Dell (Dell Computers), Larry Ellison (Oracle), Donna Karan (DKNY), Irv Robbins (Baskin & Robbins) and Bill Rosenberg (Dunkin Donuts).

Richard Levin, President of Yale University, is a Jew. So are Henry Kissinger (American secretary of state), Alan Greenspan (fed chairman under Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush), Joseph Lieberman, Madeleine Albright (American secretary of state), Maxim Litvinov (USSR foreign Minister), David Marshal (Singapore’s first chief minister), Isaac Isaacs (governor-general of Australia), Benjamin Disraeli (British statesman and author), Yevgeny Primakov (Russian PM), Jorge Sampaio (president of Portugal), Herb Gray (Canadian deputy PM), Pierre Mendes (French PM), Michael Howard (British home secretary), Bruno Kreisky (chancellor of Austria) and Robert Rubin (former American secretary of treasury).

In the media, famous Jews include Wolf Blitzer (CNN), Barbara Walters (ABC News), Eugene Meyer (Washington Post), Henry Grunwald (editor-in-chief Time), Katherine Graham (publisher of The Washington Post), Joseph Lelyyeld (Executive editor, The New York Times), and Max Frankel (New York Times).

Can you name the most beneficent philanthropist in the history of the world ?  The name is George Soros, a Jew, who has so far donated a colossal $4 billion most of which has gone as aid to scientists and universities around the world. Second to George Soros is Walter Annenberg, another Jew, who has built a hundred libraries by donating an estimated $2 billion.

At the Olympics, Mark Spitz set a record of sorts by winning seven gold medals. Lenny Krayzelburg is a three- time Olympic gold medallist. Spitz, Krayzelburg and Boris Becker are all Jewish.

Did you know that Harrison Ford, George Burns, Tony Curtis, Charles Bronson, Sandra Bullock, Billy Crystal, Woody Allen, Paul Newman, Peter Sellers, Dustin Hoffman, Michael Douglas, Ben Kingsley, Kirk Douglas, William Shatner, Jerry Lewis and Peter Falk are all Jewish?

As a matter of fact, Hollywood itself was founded by a Jew. Among directors and producers, Steven Spielberg, Mel Brooks, Oliver Stone, Aaron Spelling (Beverly Hills 90210), Neil Simon (The Odd Couple), Andrew Vaina (Rambo 1/2/3), Michael Man (Starsky and Hutch), Milos Forman (One flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest), Douglas Fairbanks (The thief of Baghdad) and Ivan Reitman (Ghostbusters) are all Jewish.

To be certain, Washington is the capital that matters and in Washington the lobby that matters is The American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC. Washington knows that if PM Ehud Olmert were to discover that the earth is flat, AIPAC will make the 109th Congress pass a resolution congratulating Olmert on his discovery.

William James Sidis, with an IQ of 250-300, is the brightest human who ever existed. Guess what faith did he belong to ?

So, why are Jews so powerful ?

Answer: Education.

Why are Muslims so powerless ?

There are an estimated 1,476,233,470 Muslims on the face of the planet: one billion in Asia, 400 million in Africa,44 million in Europe and six million in the Americas . Every fifth human being is a Muslim; for every single Hindu there are two Muslims, for every Buddhist there are two Muslims and for every Jew there are one hundred Muslims. Ever wondered why Muslims are so powerless ?

Here is why: There are 57 member-countries of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC), and all of them put together have around 500 universities; one university for every three million Muslims. The United States has 5,758 universities and India has 8,407. In 2004, Shanghai Jiao Tong University compiled an ‘Academic Ranking of World Universities’ , and intriguingly, not one university from Muslim-majority states was in the top-500.

As per data collected by the UNDP, literacy in the Christian world stands at nearly 90 per cent and 15 Christian- majority states have a literacy rate of 100 per cent. A Muslim-majority state, as a sharp contrast, has an average literacy rate of around 40 per cent and there is no Muslim-majority state with a literacy rate of 100 per cent. Some 98 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Christian world had completed primary school, while less than 50 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Muslim world did the same.

Around 40 per cent of the ‘literates’ in the Christian world attended university while no more than two per cent of the ‘literate s’ in the Muslim world did the same.

Muslim-majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The US has 4,000 scientists per million and Japan has 5,000 per million. In the entire Arab world, the total number of full-time researchers is 35,000 and there are only 50 technicians per one million Arabs (in the Christian world there are up to 1,000 technicians per one million). Furthermore, the Muslim world spends 0.2 per cent of its GDP on research and development, while the Christian world spends around five per cent of its GDP.

Conclusion: The Muslim world lacks the capacity to produce knowledge.

Daily newspapers per 1,000 people and number of book titles per million are two indicators of whether knowledge is being diffused in a society. In Pakistan , there are 23 daily newspapers per 1,000 Pakistanis while the same ratio in Singapore is 360. In the UK , the number of book titles per million stands at 2,000 while the same in Egypt is 20.

Conclusion: The Muslim world is failing to diffuse knowledge.

Exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports are an important indicator of knowledge application. Pakistan ‘s exports of high technology products as a percentage of total exports stands at one per cent. The same for Saudi Arabia is 0.3 per cent; Kuwait , Morocco , and Algeria are all at 0.3 per cent while Singapore is at 58 per cent.

Conclusion: The Muslim world is failing to apply knowledge.

Why are Muslims powerless?  Because we aren’t producing knowledge.
Why are Muslims powerless?  Because we aren’t diffusing knowledge.
Why are Muslims powerless?  Because we aren’t applying knowledge.

And, the future belongs to knowledge-based societies.

Interestingly, the combined annual GDP of 57 OIC-countries is under $2 trillion. America , just by herself, produces goods and services worth $12 trillion; China $8 trillion, Japan $3.8 trillion and Germany $2.4 trillion (purchasing power parity basis).

Oil rich Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $500 billion; Spain alone produces goods and services worth over $1 trillion, Catholic Poland $489 billion and Buddhist Thailand $545 billion. (Muslim GDP as a percentage of world GDP is fast declining).

So, why are Muslims so powerless ?

Answer: Lack of Education ! All we do is shout to Allah whole day and blame everyone else for our multiple failures..!

I ask you, if this isnt stereotyping, then what is? At one shot, Jews are stereotyped. Muslims are stereotyped. As I responded to the mailing group, I said. If this logic is right, then the root cause of this is the religion. Then all Muslims need to do to become good and smart is to convert to Judaism. If Islam is the rationale behind this grouping and frame, then it leads inexorably to that argument. Which is obviously stupid, reductio ad absurdum, eh? See why I find books like this and arguments like this very strange?

Support for Suicide Terrorism

So what is the relationship between the support for terrorism in public opinion and the relationship with terrorist attacks? Guess what these researchers found?

We find that justification in public opinion for suicide terrorism increases terror attacks on people in countries that are unfavorably regarded. There is a robust positive relationship between the share of the population in a country that at the same time justifies suicide bombings and has an unfavorable opinion of another country, and terrorism originating from the former country.

In other words, there is statistically significant evidence that public opinion does encourage terrorism. In a way, this is a d’oh statement. Terrorism thrives on the oxygen of publicity and then there are various assorted morons and idiots who will support terror as a way to punish other countries. What they do not understand (well, not surprising because its usually religious nutters and other ideologically screwed up people who do this) is that terrorism usually devours them.

So what do people from s Bangladesh, Egypt, Ethiopia, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morocco, Senegal, Tanzania, Mali, Jordan, Lebanon, Indonesia, Turkey, Pakistan, Palestine and Nigeria respond to the PEW survey question?

Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets
are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter
what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified. Do you personally feel that this kind
of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never
justified?

On average 23% justified suicide terrorism, with a minimum of 8% support and an astonishingly high 70% maximum support. Highest was in Palestine, Nigeria and Mali, Lowest up was in Egypt, Pakistan and Indonesia. Surprising eh? Palestine I can understand, but Nigeria, Mali, Egypt, Pakistan and Indonesia? The last 3 countries are like factories for terrorists. Some other facets, Nigerian Women were showing more support for suicide bombing compared to men. Here’s the graph

There was another question which was asked, about which countries are most unfavourable to the respondents. Some of the results for the most unfavourable and least unfavourable are amazing and bewildering.

So Bangladesh actually has the lowest unfavourable opinion towards India! and highest towards USA. And what on earth is happening in Ethiopia with least Japan and high Iran? USA seems to be the most hated country across these muslim nations. Extraordinary but what is worrying is the extraordinarily high level of support for suicide bombing and terrorism in all these countries. The next time somebody says that terrorist support in Muslim countries relate only to a very small minority, do ask about the definition of a very small minority because a minority which ranges from 8-70% with an average of 23% aint such a small minority by any stretch of imagination.

In an alternative universe in Egypt

I got this translation in my in-box. This was very sarcastic and just brilliant. But for religious meatheads, the sarcasm and brilliance will just pass over their heads. Its my firm belief that these muttheads are nuts and the fact that everybody and his dog is now getting on the in-your-face religiousity is really sad. But check it out.

The diary of Mister Abd Rabbo (slave to his god), the Muslim in Coptic Egypt
Try to imagine if these things would happen to you as a Muslim one day, how would you feel?

If you got woken up at dawn by the sounds of a very loud microphone that tears your sleep away and fills your ears with a program from CTV broadcast a mass service from church and national TV would be broadcasting it too, and you find a hoarse voice yelling "glory to god, glory to god, come to church to pray to your lord"
of course after that you would fail in sleeping again and would remain awake until you have to get up to go to work.
you wave to a cab and the driver is a Copt who has a tape playing at the loudest possible volume. The tape is a sermon by a fanatic priest saying those who believe in the Prophet Muhammad are infidels, they need to be killed, so you get scared and ask the driver to drop you off and you decide to take the underground
you find a place and sit down in the underground carriage and your are flanked from both sides by pious Copts reading from  their bibles loudly all the way till you get a headache
you are in the minority, almost everyone around you is a Copt so you cannot say anything because if you do the answer you get will be: are you objecting to God's words? and this will lead to a discussion, which will end up with a problem that will require the police, but then you know that most of the police force are Copts, which is another bigger problem, so you just shut up and keep quiet to avoid problems and get to work
So you reach your place of employment and by now you are very tense and nervous because you did not sleep enough, were awoken rudely and got aggravated by the taxi-driver and have a headache from the underground, so you are not feeling happy and still you wish your co-workers a good morning and peace, and they reply back to you, the Lord's morning and Jesus' peace, so you just shut up and get to your desk
you start to work and in a little while you find your colleagues telling you that they will go pray to the Lord and they gather in the corridor and pray together to secure more rewards and after prayer they take out their little booklets with "dua" (that's kind of personal prayers specially formulated using words from the holy book). You feel like using the restroom and you cannot because the corridor is blocked and you cannot interrupt their prayers, so you try very hard to keep it in till they finish
after that you resume your work and your colleague Girgis (George) comes and asks you why don't you convert to the true religion, it is the majority religion, so it is the right one, instead of remaining a heretic and ending up in hell. You are a good person, and we like you, so we want you to be with us on the right path. Because you want to avoid problems you will have to reply to him diplomatically and politely and say, I like my own religion and even if it is the wrong one, I would rather be in it but thank you for your concern about my wellbeing in the afterlife, so he will get very upset with you and a fight will start
so you appreciate that the working day is over and you can go home, so you remember the cab driver and the neighbours in the underground and you decide that your day has already had enough problems so you walk home.
After all that walking you reach home at sunset and that is the timing of the next prayer and you find your small street blocked by those praying. Even the small grocery store has been converted to a small church and you squeeze between the wall and those praying so you can reach your house and you cant help but hear the sermon given by the priest that true religion is Christianity, that the Copts will prevail, that all others are non-believers and need to be killed or repent and adopt the true religion and that those who believe in Muhammad the false prophet are doomed. SO you swallow your words and go home only to find your wife in a state
she tells you that she was walking in the street and your neighbour's son was telling her that the way she is dressed is all wrong because she is creating temptation and she will burn in hell for it and that she is doomed
so you bite your tongue because you do not want any problems because if you complained the Copts would come and torch your house or torch the Muslim shops in the street and the small old mosque, the only one in the neighbourhood, and the police will come and arrest you for inciting disobedience and you might get slapped with a court case for insulting the true religion and then you will go to jail, and if you keep silent your wife will no longer respect you for being a coward and a weakling so you just tell her, malesh, all will be good eventually and they are just misguided, Allah will help them see the light some day, and you hug your wife and you try to sleep only to find the microphones staring again ....

Caste amongst Muslims and Christians in India

I had a good discussion with some friends on a mailing list. Quite a lot of people were very surprised and wouldn't believe that Muslims and Christians in India have a caste system. So I am taking the liberty (and with permission from some) to put in some points which I and others wrote which confirms the existence of caste in the Indian Muslim and Christian population. It is only when we identify and agree that this happens that we can think about eradication. This is not just Hindu specific, this has become an India wide, cross all religions. We see this situation in Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Christians, Sikhs, you name it.

1. I dont know about keralites, but among tamil christians, at least 20 years ago, caste was very important in marriage. We have nadar christians, thevar christians, vellalar christians etc. Also a telugu christian lady once told me that she was a brahmin-chrstain and would not intermarry with other 'non-brahmin' christians. One of her relatives had married the tamil actor Nagesh, and she was saying how the family was alright with it since Nagesh was a brahmin although a hindu. I have a Oriya christain friend who says he is kshatriya/Rajput, and in his family they will be willing to marry a brahmin-christian at the most outside his own caste.
   BTW, a muslim friend from Hyderabad, while referring to another muslim caste (I dont remember the name of the caste) told me how they looked down on those muslims and would not intermarry with them. I have heard how in Bengal at one time hindus and muslims married among themselves on caste lines, when they refused to marry from a different caste even if of the same religion.
   Times have changed. I see a lot of intermarriage among urban hindus, especially the IT types, I am sure such changes are happening among christians and muslims also. Intermarriage alone is the solution.
2. For a genuine student of Kerala Christianity, I can give the names of the following castes in Kerala Christianity:- 1) Anglo Indians ( approved by Government of Kerala os an OBC) 2) Latin Catholics ---( OBC as per GOK) - unofficially they belongs to 3 castes - group of 500s, Groups of 700s & Former Syrains. 3)Nadar Christians ( approved by GOK as an OBC) 4) Scheduled Caste Coverts to Christianity ( approved by GOK as an OBC) -- unofficially they belong to many castes like Pulaya, Parya, Sambvar etc. 5) Mala Aryan Christians ( Approved by GOK/GOI as ST) The Pre-portugese Christians or the Ancient Malabar  Christians now commonly referred as Syrian Christians are classified into two, a) Northists -- who claim they were Christianised by Apostle Thomas b) Southists --- who claim they are the descendants of those Christians who have migrated to Kerala in 4th & 9th Centuries from Syria. Of course  there is no observance of hierachy and ritual purity amoung these castes, the differences mainy exist "in the mind" & in matters of marriage.
3. I just realised that you might not have access to the journal articles. I only have the second one electronically, the other two are paper, but here are some extracts which you might find of use: In India, Muslim castes generally fall into two categories: higher castes of Syed, Sheikh, Pathan, and Mughal, and lower, service castes. The high castes claim foreign origin from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, or Central Asia, while the members of the low castes are low-caste Hindu converts. Many high castes however are also Hindu converts. For example, manyPathans are publicly known as high-caste Hindu converts. The large number of Sheikhs, as seen in census data on Muslim caste throughout India, makes it probable that many if not most of the Sheikhs are Hindu converts (see Ahmad, 1978a, for a study of a converted Hindu caste that regards itself as a Sheikh subcaste). This is likely a result of what Goodfriend (1983:123) calls the “Sheikh factor” (or Sanskritization in Srinivas’s terminology) , that is, of lower ranking Muslim caste groups attempting to raise their status over time by claiming that they are Sheikhs. These four Muslim high castes are categories, and often (though by no means always) there will be corporate subgroups formed from these categories. In Hyderabad, in addition to the four higher caste categories, the most well-known lower caste groups are the Qureshi (or Qassab, butchers) and  Ladaf (cotton beaters). Other castes that are important in the local hierarchy are Baid Pathan (who have a near-monopoly on the local wholesale betel nut trade) and Chawsh (descendents of Yemeni Arabs who migrated to serve in the Nizam’s forces; see Khalidi, 1997).We should note that being high caste does not necessarily mean that the caste is high status; that is, caste does not fully determine a group’s status. For example, Chawsh, while Arab, are of distinctly lower status than Syeds, Sheikhs, and Mughals in Hyderabad, since their main employment was as military personnel, and others regard them as rough and uncivil. They are not as low as service castes, such as weavers and butchers. However, because of their military background, they are considered lower than “genteel” castes of Syeds, Sheikhs, and Mughals, yet they are still high because of their Arab descent.12 He then talks about the qureshi's and Medhavi Pathans and so on and so forth.  The architect we had was a Qureshi and as you can appreciate over the construction of the house, we discussed various things, caste and history being one of them.
4. That's true. Christians in Kerala were identified with the upper castes till the westerners came. But please go back to history beofre that and you will find in all books of history that it is the 9th century that Christians came to be accepted as a caste just below the Brahmins. Go back to the social history of Kerala and you will find that the caste system became an integral part of Kerala in this century that is known as the dark of Kerala. That was a little over a century after the Parasuram myth entered Kerala marking the birth of Brahminism. (It had entered Karnataka about a century before that. By saying that caste entered the Kerala Churches only with the westerners you are doing what Hindu fundamentalists are doing by saying that caste is an introduction of colonialism. What happened with the western missionary is that persons from different castes entered the church and they remained as different castes. That is what one means by saying that caste is practised among Christians. By speaking of caste system one does not refer only to its extreme form of caste-based oppression.
5. It differs from place to place. In Goa and Mangalore, there are four or five castes but occupation makes a difference. In Kerala there are two castes (Nordist and Sudhist) among the Syrian Christians. Latin Christians keep pretty much the system as in their surroundings. Obviously there are many nuances which can be understood from historical factors. For example, there are "Latin Christians" who joined the "Latin Church" considered the authentic church at the "Coonan Cross "Revolt" of 1653 (?). They keep their caste and many intermarry with the Syrian Christians. In TN and AP, there is very little difference between the Hindu and Christian castes. This of course is a simplified versions. It has many nuances. But the basic fact is that caste continues to exist among Christians. For example, some groups like the Nadars who were "untouchable" toddy tappers have moved upwards by using the church structure and have become a "backward" caste. One can mention other nuances. But the basic fact is that caste exists in different ways among Christians though many of its external expressions have changed during the last century. Though Muslims may not recognise it, in practice it exists also among them in different ways. It is important to recognise it and fight against the injustice it does to the subaltern castes.
6. check these out: *       Ahmad, Imtiaz (1978). Caste and social stratification among Muslims in India. New Delhi: Manohar. OCLC; *       Ali, Syed (December 2002). "Collective and Elective Ethnicity: Caste Among Urban Muslims in India". Sociological Forum 17 (4): 593–620. ; *       Ahmad, S. Shamim; A. K. Chakravarti (January 1981). "Some regional characteristics of Muslim caste systems in India". GeoJournal 5 (1): 55–60.
7. belonging to a caste itself is not illegal. Not least because there is no agreed legal structure behind what a caste can be. The current way of defining castes is such a hodge podge that castes are identified based upon gazetted notifications. Go figure. Finally, no, I have not come across any well argued historiographically accurate explanation of how the ved or purana or upanishad descriptions of godhead into humans into professions have morphed into the 600 odd castes which are currently gazetted as per the following list. http://lawmin.nic.in/ld/subord/rule3a.htm so as you can see, actually belonging to a caste or following the caste system as a means of identification is not illegal.
8. The government of India stopped collecting data on non-Untouchable (or Dalit) castes after independence. Therefore we do not know how many people of each caste there are. The last census to consider caste for Hyderabad state was in 1921. In this census, in the state of Hyderabad, there were 1,298,277 Muslims counted, with 906,363 returned as Sheikh, 187,679 as Syed, 131,828 Pathans, and 50,048 Mughals. Only 22,359 other caste members were counted (Census of India, 1921:228–236). Although it would be foolish to extrapolate these numbers to today, my observations and conversations with scholars and others indicate that, as in 1921, there are relatively few people of low castes in Hyderabad, while the bulk of Muslims in the city are high caste, mostly Sheikhs. The collection of ethnographic data is valuable here precisely because caste groups are not identifiable through enumeration.
9. The idea may seem strange that in an egalitarian religion like Islam, there would be ranked, hierarchical divisions among Muslims. Many scholars have debated this point, whether or not caste exists among Muslims in India. It has been clearly established that in some parts of India, and for certain Muslims, caste considerations are strong (e.g., Ahmad, 1976, 1978b, 1981, 1983; Ansari, 1960; Jamous, 1997; Madan, 1995), while for others they are less important (e.g., Fanselow, 1997; Mines, 1978; Vatuk, 1997).
10. Blood purity is an important concern for Qureshis; they only give and take marriage partners amongst themselves. Qadeer, a 25-year-old butcher, said that if he were to marry out, it would be a major problem. The butchers are very keen on this. There is a distinct sense of honor among them, which is manifest mainly through the maintenance of endogamy (they do not give or take girls from “just anyone”), and the type of work they do—they slaughter only goats. They do not slaughter large animals such as buffalo and cattle, so they feel superior to the buffalo butchers. They also do not slaughter chickens, which is not the province of any particular caste.While the Qureshi are endogamous as a matter of honor, others who are higher caste do not want to associate downward with them. One doctor (a
    Syed) looking for a wife for her son (a Pathan) told me in a firm manner, “No Qureshis. Their culture is completely different.” Aijaz, a marriage lawyer, said that there is biraderi endogamy among groups like butchers because others do not want to marry them, since they always have knives in their hands, and they are a little jahil, rough and uncivil. “But what if they are not practicing butchers?” I asked. He reflected and said, “Yes, I know of one doctor who is of the Qureshi biraderi in Mallepally neighborhood, and his wife is not a butcher.” So, he said, people are only considering money and education now.
11. The literature on Hindu caste is vast, and beyond the scope of this paper (e.g., Dirks, 1987; Dumont, 1980; Raheja, 1988). Marriott (1976, 1989; see also Marriott and Inden, 1977) argues for interpreting Indian culture through indigenous sociological categories, while Milner (1994) employs aWeberian analysis to examine caste as the most extreme form of status stratification.
    Unlike Marriott, Milner sees caste as comparable to status systems elsewhere.While there are arguments over how best to understand the caste system, another question has been over just how rigid this system historically has been. Cohn (1987) argues that the caste system(s) were quite fluid and that hierarchies of caste were contingent upon local conditions of rule. This changed under the British, who established thorough and relatively stable control, directly and indirectly, over all of India. Also, through the British-administered census, caste was enumerated for the first time, and codified according to a Brahmanical view. Thus, in many places where caste was contested, a hierarchy of castes with Brahmins as superior was imposed by the British (Dirks, 1987). For the most thorough discussion of caste, see Bayly (1999), who gives an excellent account of the development and changes in caste throughout India from the ancient Vedic period to the present.
12. three of my cousins have married Christians, so I have a reasonably good view of 3 case studies of how caste is pretty solidly entrenched in there. Whether we are talking about who gets invited, the churches which are certain castes, inter marriage between castes and the like are all indicators to the fact that it does exist. And before we start, yes, discrimination is present in both religions, just not on the basis of caste, so if its discrimination that we are looking for, we have that in spades. But to go back to your question, caste as a measure of association is perfectly legal. No illegality in that. It is when you discriminate on that basis, remove opportunities on that basis, etc., that's illegal.

The existence of caste in Muslim and Christian communities that I have observed in Allahabad, Lucknow, Hyderabad, Bhopal and other places pretty much shows that it part and parcel of Indian community life. Calling it localised is irrelevant since its pretty much prevalent wherever there are concentrations of Muslims and Christians. Just like Hindu's try to explain away caste, others also try to explain away caste in their communities. As I said, I dont really have a problem with people wanting to stick with their own biraderi or caste. And as I said, its not illegal either and its a fundamental right. Its when it becomes discriminatory, that's where the problem lies.

Arguing that the caste system exists in India because of Hinduism might be fair. We do need to go after the Hindu guru’s and the Shankaracharya’s to get them to come out clearly against this heinous situation because it is only after we clearly state that despite it being mentioned in some of the Hindu tracts, it does not meant that we think of people in an upper or lower caste basis.

While I am at it, I also disagree with the idea of counting and measuring castes, we are trying to get away from all this caste business and all this measurement, enumeration, will simply perpetuate this and keep huge problems growing. Look at the people who are asking for it and pretty much all of them are asking for this so that they can demand more resources from the government. Nobody thinks about India as a whole. If you do want to help, then help the poor irrespective of their castes. Surely we are all Indians and that’s more important?

Woman Muslim MP in the UK. Welcome to Neanderthal times

Rushanara Ali is a new MP in the new British Parliament. Check out the reaction to her election. Welcome to the 7th century. Here’s another post on this.

Veiling doesnt seem to stop harassment

One of the most frequent reasons given by Muslim women who are veiled or want to veil is that it allows them to affirm their faith, follow the strictures of Islam and basically stop themselves being looked as objects of lust. Dress modestly so to say, dont allow your hair to be seen and and and. So when I read this, I was a bit bewildered. I quote:

The Egyptian media reported that about 300 cases of sexual harassment against women occurred over the recent Adha holiday. The cases, which the Interior Ministry would not confirm or deny, varied from verbal taunts to assaults. Al Destour newspaper said the number of incidents was higher than what was reported during the Fitr feast in September.

Sexual harassment in Egyptian cities has become an disturbing phenomenon of late. It recently became associated with feast holidays, where thousands enjoy spending their free time outdoors. Younger generations face less-strict scrutiny from their parents, who tend to allow their daughters to go out without parental supervision during feasts. Police security is usually softer than it is throughout the rest of the year.

The biggest incident came during last year's Fitr, when 150 men and boys were arrested for going on a harassing spree in the streets of Mohandeseen in Cairo. A few of the defendants, who assaulted girls and cut their clothes, were taken to court and one was sentenced to a year in jail.

The number of harassment cases during the feasts echoes a study carried out by the Egyptian Center for Women's Rights (ECWR) last July, showing that 83% of Egyptian women and 98% of foreign females residing in the country reported being harassed.

Egypt's penal code sets imprisonment punishments for anyone who sexually assaults minors, but many assaulted women have seen their cases blocked as judges and prosecutors blamed similar incidents on the "provocative" way some girls are dressed. But the ECWR's study refutes such allegations, saying that 71.5% of women who reported sexual harassment were wearing veils (head scarves) and non-revealing clothes, and 19.6% of them were even wearing niqabs (face veils).

I am not really sure that veiling is really helping out here. And as usual, the problem is with the men. Without veils, you are accused of dressing provocatively and acting whorishly. Seriously, so many debates that i have followed in mailing lists or newspapers or elsewhere, the women who are veiled (and the men who support them) talk about bikini clad women, scantily clad women and how that doesnt give rise to dignity of the women. But seems like if you veil, you are in bigger danger of being groped and harassed. When I spoke to somebody who was Egyptian, their response was that the men think that veiled women are easy, they would not complain, they will simply take the harassment and walk on. Once a woman finds that her body is shameful and has to be hidden away, well, there you go, if you cover the meat, you will get handled, if you uncover the meat, you will be called as uncovered meat.

The problem is not going to be resolved by wearing burqa’s or the veil, the problem is that men are defining what women are and aren't. Look at what happened in New York. I quote:

Scantily clad hipster cyclists attracted to the Brooklyn neighborhood made it difficult, the Hasids said, to obey religious laws forbidding them from staring at members of the opposite sex in various states of undress. These riders also were disobeying the traffic laws, they complained

See? the men are the weak lot, they cannot control their lust and emotions. While I am fully in favour of what you wear and what not to wear, these internal contradictions need to be thought through a bit more. Given that Europe is moving towards banning the veil, does this mean that women’s harassment in Europe will be lessened?

The strange case of Jazak Allah

I find it very amusing when I see Indian’s start off with this Jazak Allah and Allah Hafiz business. We speak Urdu back home but to show that they are more Arab than Indian, this Jazak Allah business is getting more and more popular. Dont they realise how pretentious they sound? This Pakistani op-ed reflects how silly this is:

Like most urban middle class folks these days, a friend of mine too has a habit of using the term Inshallah (God willing) a lot. So one day I asked him why is almost every sentence uttered by my fellow Pakistanis punctuated with an Inshallah?

His reply was the usual: “So? What is wrong with using Inshallah?”

“Absolutely nothing,” I said. “In fact I sometimes use it myself. But why do some of us use it constantly? Will things not happen the way we want them to if we don’t use it?”

“Perhaps,” he said.

“Then this means God didn’t will them to happen, right?” I asked.

“But, of course,” my friend replied.

“But maybe we too had something to do with them not happening?” I suggested.

“We can give it our best shot. The final decision is with God,” he said.

“But then what happens to the whole concept of free will?” I asked. “Hasn’t God given us the physical and intellectual faculties to carve out our own destiny?”

“What’s your point?” He asked.
“Doesn’t using Inshallah so often make it lose its meaning?” I asked.

“Like how?” he inquired.

“For example,” I explained, “A friend of mine ordered some pizza yesterday. When he asked the pizza delivery guy how long it will take for him to deliver the pizza, the guy answered, ‘in forty minutes Inshallah!”

“Well,” he smiled. “There’s really no harm in it.”

“But why involve God in the simple matter of delivering a pizza, for heaven’s sake!” I laughed.
“So, how did your friend respond?” he asked.

“He was pretty peeved. So he responded by shouting Jazzak Allah!” I laughed again.

“That’s nice of him,” he said. “One should always say Jazzak Allah instead of thank you.”

“Really?” I said with a sideways smile. “There is an Urdu word for thank you as well. It’s called, ‘shukria’. If you remember, the national language is Urdu and not Arabic!”

“Listen,” he responded, “If someone wants to say Jazzak Allah instead of thank you, what’s the big deal?”

“True,” I said. “Just like there’s no big deal if somebody wants to say thank you instead of shukria, or shukria instead of Jazzak Allah.”

My friend shook his head: “What’s with you and your dislike of Arabic?”

“I never said that, did I?” I protested. “All I am saying is that most Pakistanis are forgetting that Urdu, Sindhi, Punjabi, Sariki, Balochi and Pushtu are our languages and not Arabic! What’s this new fetish with folks trying to make us all spout Arabic words? How does this make us better Muslims?”

“But you do not have a problem with using English words!” He retorted.

“Dude, I’m not sending emails and a barrage of SMS text messages asking people to become secular by using English words!” I replied.

“What do you mean?” He said.

“Oh, come on, you know what I mean,” I said. “People sending text messages and emails telling Muslims to become better Muslims by saying ‘Allah Hafiz’ instead of ‘Khuda Hafiz;’ ‘Jazzak Allah’ instead of ‘thank you;’ ‘salat’ instead of namaz.’. What’s more, what is this other new idea of shouting Alhamdulillah instead of answering with a simple ‘yes’ or a ‘haan?”

“Chalo jee, now you have a problem with that too,” my friend chuckled.

“Of course, I do,” I said. “Sometimes I feel one can now hear more Urdu on the streets of Dubai than in the drawing-rooms of Pakistan!”

“Stop exaggerating!” He protested.

“No, really,” I explained, “How has using Arabic words made our society any better? Also, now more Pakistanis go to the mosque than before, how has that made things any better?”

“This is your old argument,” my friend said, in a shrugging tone. “So what should one do? Stop going to the mosque?

“No,” I said. “But you must admit it is a valid argument.”

“Fine, but that is because we are still not following true Islam!” he explained.

“Oh?” I replied. “And who decides what true Islam is?”

“God will decide!” He announced, rhetorically.

“Doesn’t seem that way in this country, though,” I said. “It seems every other middle-class person, young or old, has become an expert religious adviser. They sound as if they are saying something profound but in reality they are only spouting clichéd traditionalist tirades that they hear from televangelists or what they read on various Internet websites!”

“You’re being judgmental,” my friend claimed.

“Judgmental?” I retorted. “Dude, have you ever heard your born-again Jazzak Allah brigade? Forget infidels, they do not hesitate in calling some of their fellow Muslims atheists and kafir as well.”

“I know,” my friend replied. “They are misled.”

“So, this means only misled people say Inshallah, Jazzak Allah and Alhamdullilah?” I smiled.

“Don’t twist my words,” he protested.

“I won’t, but only if this pseudo-Arabic brigade stops asking Pakistanis to twist their tongues in pursuit of bagging God’s approval. It’s downright bizarre hearing some perfectly sane Pakistanis talking as if they’re from Yemen!” I said, exasperated.

“Well, using ‘dude’ and ‘mate’ is as weird,” he said.

“Sure,” I smiled. “But I promise you, mate, there’s no divine approval attached to it.”

Meet the Ex-Jihadis

This is very interesting, to find out why young British Muslims go rogue. Very long, but very interesting, go read the full thing.

A Jesus Era house excavated in Nazareth

Now here’s an interesting item which caught my eye. I knew the history of Jesus of Nazareth where he grew up, but my mental image of Nazareth was always what was illustrated in Nativity Plays, Bible books, paintings and such like. Very clean, idealised village which would not be out of place in modern day Britain. Here’s an example:

here’s another painting, Nazareth by William Gale.

Anyway, you get the idea. But then this announcement popped up. I quote:

The remains of a small house that can be dated back to the time of Jesus have been found in the past days during excavation works in progress in Nazareth, guided by a team of Israeli archaeologists. According to the scientists, this is the first house from that era ever uncovered.  "The building that we found is small and modest and it is most likely typical of the dwellings in Nazareth in that period," the archaeologist added, suggesting that "Jesus and his childhood friends may have known this house".

Click on this site and this to see 2 photographs of the currently excavated site which shows the foundations of the house and the walls. The hamlet, unlike what has been portrayed in the paintings and books, was a dirt poor tiny hamlet of not more than 50 families. Interestingly enough, the archaeologists have found a water harvesting system on the roof. What a change and as the LA Times says:

…not far from the spot where the Archangel Gabriel is said to have revealed to Mary that she would give birth to the boy. Today the ornate Basilica of the Annunciation marks that spot, and Nazareth is the largest Arab city in northern Israel, with about 65,000 residents. Muslims now outnumber Christians 2 to 1 in the noisy, crowded city. The archaeological find shows how different it was 2,000 years ago: Christianity and Islam did not yet exist; the Jewish Temple stood in Jerusalem; and tiny Nazareth was near a battleground between Roman rulers and Jewish guerrillas….

There is obviously no Jewish presence now, the number of Christians is dropping precipitously in Palestine and the Jewish state is busy having fun with the Muslims. The archaeologists also found a hidden entrance to a grotto which could have been used by the Jews to escape from the Romans. And Palestine now has underground tunnels to smuggle people and goods in and out of Palestine. In certain cases, not much has changed now has it? And what also surprised me was that nobody has done any politicking on this yet as archaeology in the holy land is inextricably linked with politics down history.

But what has changed is the image of Nazareth in my mind. Instead of the bucolic, green and peaceful town that was imprinted in my mind, it has now converted into a parched, drought ridden, desperately poor, quite dirty, fearful tiny little village of no importance back then. Merry Christmas everybody.

Secretary forced out of Muslim school by parents who thought she was a man

Sometimes I wonder whether the parents need to be educated as well, because as in this story, this bunch of hoo haa’s are clearly shown up as being stupid, moronic, idiotic, lacking in basic decency, obscurantist, medieval, stupid, horrible, mean, pathetic, disgusting, and and and. This is being taught at a British School? Crikey, what a sad sad state of affairs:

Shifa Patel, who dressed for work in a traditional hijab (head covering) and full-length robe, was targeted after photographs of her with short hair and wearing a shirt and trousers were copied from social networking site Facebook.

But when an angry mob of parents gathered at the school gates attempting to force their way in and demanding she be sacked, the secretary decided to hand in her resignation and the head also decided to quit in protest.

The school seems to be setup by parents who are seriously stupid.

It was established in 1995 by parents who were concerned about the state school environment and the effect it might have on their children. Music is viewed as un-Islamic and GCSE students are taught Islamic studies, rather than religious education, and Arabic and Urdu instead of modern European languages.

What’s good is that these people will soon get extinct as only idiots like them will want to teach in their school and only more idiots will come out of the school. PATHETIC!.

Christian Far Right terrorism in the UK

This chap, Neil MacGregor, apparently threatened to blow up Glasgow Central Mosque and behead one Muslim per week till all Muslims are gone. Now curiously, this news item was not flashed on any of the media. I wonder why? And as many have inquired, if a British Muslim had actually planned to blow up Westminster Cathedral, what do you think the reaction would have been?

He belongs to the National Front, a particularly detestable, hideously stupid bunch of morons. Take a look at their website, a bunch of more intellectually challenged morons will not be found anywhere, but then these kinds of religious and/or ideologically skewed idiots seem to be particularly potent in this country.

Islamophobia is pretty much rife here, institutionally racism anybody? And no, I am not exaggerating, what else explains the lack of any form of media coverage whatsoever? I Google News searched for Neil MacGregor and Glasgow Central Mosque and all I could find was ZERO, Nada, nothing, not a sausage mention of this case. Blogs yes, news items no. This blogger asked about it and he got this response from STV. This never stopped other terrorism trials to be covered before sentencing now, did it?

Dear Mr Ahmed

Thank you for your email. stv have not covered the story in any detail so far as the case keeps being deferred. We are aware of the date of his sentencing and may cover it accordingly.

Thanks for your interest.

Kind Regards

Some links here and here. I searched for the case on the Scottish Court’s Website , but could not find anything. It might be that the case is still running, so dont know if its up. Mind you, the story seems to be broken by The Digger, a bit of a rag, by the sounds of it here and here.

Anyway, worth keeping a beady eye out on this.

Technorati Tags: Terrorism,Christianity,Islam,United Kingdom

Mecca mosques 'wrongly aligned'

Whoops, presumably that means that prayers offered at 200 mosques are potentially misplaced. The story says:

Some worshippers are said to be anxious about the validity of their prayers

Say these mosques are about average 25 years old. Each having say the average capacity of say 500 people, with 5 prayers a day. That’s a total of 12,500,000 or 12.5 million prayers which have gone astray. And worse, if they aren’t aligned, they might be aiming those prayers at say Rome, or Varanasi or Lord only knows where. Bit silly, no? Plus remember, the direction changed, previously the recommended direction was Jerusalem and then the Prophet changed the direction to Mecca. And if Allah is everywhere, how does it matter which direction you pray in? Some people are just too literal.

Technorati Tags: Islam,Muslims

Caged Birds

Just says it all, doesnt it?

Technorati Tags: Islam,Women,Photo Essay

Is Gordon Brown the Dajjal?

I saw this forum discussion and had a good laugh. Just because he is one eyed, he is now being discussed whether he is the Dajjal. I quote the first line:

Is Gordon Brown the Dajjal?

---

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Shall I not tell you about the Dajjal a story of which no prophet told his nation? The Dajjall is one-eyed and will bring with him what will resemble Hell and Paradise, and what he will call Paradise will be actually Hell; so I warn you (against him) as Noah warned his nation against him."
He can only see through one eye.

Go figure. Of course he isnt the Dajjal, the Dajjal was evil and not stupid.

Technorati Tags: Islam,Muslims,Politicians,Humour

Pandering to fundamentalism in the land of my fathers

Bauls are somebody who I have admired for a long time, albeit from a distance. Its that mystical angle which always appealed to me. It has a very long history and is a very powerful singing medium in the sub continent to pass on religious, political and social thought.

But then typically, some idiot religious fundamentalists in Dakka raised their ugly head and demanded that some statues of these Bauls be torn down. But that's fine, I guess, for a land which is known for its culture to reject culture is perhaps very appropriate. It is also perhaps very appropriate that that country is the country with the lowest average height above sea level. I dont know who to swear at, at the ignorant moron religious fundamentalists who demanded this or the ignorant, stupid, weak, cowardly moronic, illiterate government bodies who gave in. (forget about wastage of the money).

And yes, sculptures are important, they provide the link of my culture and history to my child. If you start letting these bastards interfere with my culture and history, you turn them into zombies and extremists. And I demand a say on the grounds that its Bangla culture they are talking about, Bangla history and Bangla people. Bloody idiots.

Rediscovering Arabic Science

An interesting post here. You might know my thoughts about this propensity to try to link science to religion or culture. Anybody who thinks that religion has anything to do with science is an idiot. No questions asked. But take a look at this article and it just shows that even very smart people make these spectacular mistakes.

Just 3 bits will show you what I mean. Arabic science is not the same as Persian Science. Frankly, in the greater scheme of things, the Persian influence is much more on those Arabs than anything that the Arabs did. No wonder, even now, the Iranians think of the Arabs as jumped up camel herders, lol. The article itself starts talking about a Persian scholar and uses that as an example of Arabic Science.

Second aspect is that they assume that they mix language/culture with religion. As usual with people who have basic issues with history and comprehension, they say that the Arab/Muslim world is the same. Erm, no, it is not and anybody who says so is not fit to be a scientist. They are simply ignorant.

Third aspect is that they forget the power of Persian language to the east, Arabic language was used but the Persian language was also used, and in a matter of speaking, more was done using the Persian language. Take a look at India which actually ended up having more Muslim brains and money than the Arabs. And it was mostly done in Persian. So lets not forget that piece.

But that is not to take away the amazing achievements that these Persian/Arabic/Muslim scientists did. But my theory is that they did so despite their religion, rather than because of it. Scientists, scholars, artists and the lot have always been state directed and been oppressed. Almost every scholar mentioned in this article has had their run-ins with the religious establishment. And THAT, my friends, is the reason for the dire state of science in Arab education at this moment. There is no point in rediscovering science if you do not do the scientific thing and learn from it. Dont be a relativistic, be a positivistic empiricist. Living in the past is not going to give you a patent or invention today or tomorrow.

Technorati Tags: Universities,Education,Arabs,Persia,Iran,History

Fundamentalism in British Mosques

You might have heard about the furore about the Dispatches programme on mosques of Channel 4. Read the second part of this drama. Some of the comments are hair raising: I quote:

What should be done to a Muslim who converts to another faith? "We kill him," she says, "kill him, kill, kill…You have to kill him, you understand?"

Adulterers, she says, are to be stoned to death - and as for homosexuals, and women who "make themselves like a man, a woman like a man ... the punishment is kill, kill them, throw them from the highest place".

These punishments, the preacher says, are to be implemented in a future Islamic state. "This is not to tell you to start killing people," she continues. "There must be a Muslim leader, when the Muslim army becomes stronger, when Islam has grown enough."

A young female student from the group interrupts her: the punishment should also be to stone the homosexuals to death, once they have been thrown from a high place.

Friendship with non-Muslims is discouraged because "loyalty is only to the Muslim, not to the kaffir [disbeliever]".

A woman who was friendly with a non-Muslim woman was heavily criticised: "It's part of Islam, of the correct belief, that you love those who love Allah and that you hate those who hate Allah."

One preacher even says Muslims shouldn't live in Britain at all: "It is not befitting for Muslims that he should reside in the land of evil, the land of the kuffaar, the land of the disbelievers."

Another, Um Saleem, says Muslims should not take British citizenship as their loyalty is to Allah.

"Some conditions can take you into disbelief, to take the British citizenship, whether you like it or not, for these people, you are selling your religion, it's a very serious thing, it is not allowed to give allegiance to other than Allah."

Channel 4 asked one of these worthies, Sheikh Yasin, to comment via this letter:

"Hardcash Productions Ltd" <hardcash@hardcashproductions.com> wrote:
BY FAX, EMAIL AND POST
Private and Confidential
12 August 2008
Dear Sheikh Yasin,
Dispatches TX. 1 September 2008
Hardcash Productions is an independent production company making a programme for Channel 4's current affairs series Dispatches, which is due to be broadcast on 1 September 2008.
The film investigates claims that the Saudi Arabian religious establishment, with the involvement of the Saudi Arabian government, is promoting a theology of intolerance, separatism and extremism around the world and, in particular, in Britain.
As part of the investigation, we have looked into the activities of some mainstream British Islamic organisations which have strong links to the Saudi Arabian religious establishment and government.
As you are aware, in a Dispatches investigation in January 2007 entitled Dispatches: Undercover Mosque, undercover reporters purchased DVDs of your speeches at the official bookshop of the Islamic Cultural Centre and London Central Mosque. These DVDs contained intolerant comments aimed at the beliefs of Jews and Christians, and claims that AIDS was a Western and Christian plot.
At the time, the ICC promised to remove your speeches from the bookshop pending an investigation into the content, but our reporters have returned and found they continue to sell your works. They bought a number of titles by you which continue to contain similar radical, intolerant comments.
In particular, we intend to include within our programme the following comments by you in a DVD entitled "Building a Muslim Community", copyright "One Islam Productions", in which you praise the beheadings practised in Saudi Arabia, saying: "At least I say, we Muslims should have that kind of power all over the world".
You say Muslims all over the world should have the power to implement an extreme version of sharia law, which includes public beheadings, amputations, lashings and crucifixions, saying; "and then people can see, people without hands, people can see in public heads rolling down the street, people can see in public people got their hands and feet from opposite sides chopped off and they see them crucified, they see people get punished they see people put up against the pole ?.. and because they see it, it acts as a deterrent for them because they say I don't want that to happen to me".
We intend to include your comments within the programme in the context of revealing that the ICC/Regents Park Mosque official bookshop continues to sell material which is promoting a radical, intolerant ideology which, amongst other things, promotes an extreme version of sharia law practised in Saudi Arabia. We also note in the film that you learned Arabic in Saudi Arabia.
If you wish to comment on the above please let us have any comments in writing, to be edited into the broadcast programme, by no later than noon on Tuesday, 26 August. After that time, we will not be able to guarantee that your comments are incorporated.
Yours sincerely,
Andrew Smith
Producer
Hardcash Productions
Fax: 0207 253 2761
Email: hardcash@hardcashproductions.com
Copy: Jan Tomalin, Controller, Legal and Compliance, Channel 4
(Fax: 0207 306 8367, Email: JTomalin@channel4.co.uk)
Kevin Sutcliffe, Deputy Head, News & Current Affairs
(Fax: 020 7306 8359, Email: ksutcliffe@channel4.co.uk)
Nigel Abbas, Media Lawyer
(Email: nigel.abbas@btinternet.com, Fax: 0871 661 7061)

Now check out what this wonderful chap says in response:

14/08/08
Dear Mr. Smith:
I am replying to you only as a courtesy, and not because I am concerned about your intended broadcast. I expect, in fact, I am certain, that your intended broadcast, will contain the usual anti-Islamic rhetoric and soundbites that are designed to provoke an already conditioned public into a fear about the Islamic system, and a fear and contempt for Muslims in general.
As for the constant use of the words "intolerant" and "extremism", I think that you, and your colleagues at Channel 4, or HardCash Productions, have been indelibly and consistently exhibiting the most vehement and malicious religious intolerance and journalistic extremism, of nearly anyone in the entire television industry of the United Kingdom!
Not only are you inaccurate, but you are scandalous, unethical and merchants of jounalistic vomit. Your motives are not morally driven, nor aimed at the intellectualization of your viewers. Rather, you are resorting to the use of cheap sensational journalism, to exploit an unaware and pre-conditioned public, in order to make the "bottom line" profit that sustains your "Channel 4 - HardCore" vomit factory.
Your allegations of my statements on a DVD, titled "Building a Muslim Community", and I must say allegations, because, in every lecture, writing, or communication of any kind, there is something called the "context", which can only be appreciated when someone objectively, sincerely, and intellectually, forms an opinion, after making a comprehensive and thorough examination.
I want to remind you, that capital punishment, including, but limited to: decapitation, lethal injection, firing squad, gas chamber, electrocution, and hanging by the neck, has been, and is still resorted to by Governments and States throughout the modern world as both a punishment and a deterrent for criminal behavior in the society. It is not a practice limited to Muslim countries, whether past or present.
Whatever statements I made in that lecture was aimed at reforming the Muslim people, the Muslim society, and the Muslim world, to know that Islam is not merely a system of religious rituals and theological observances, but is a comprehensive system of Law and Justice, legislated by Almighty
God, and adjudicated by the Sovereign Islamic State, when there exists such a state.
Due to historically documented conspiracies between criminal Muslim States and the immoral empirical ambitions of countries like Great Britain (as the United Kingdom was referred to at that time) and the United States of America, the legitimate ambition to have and sustain a Sovereign Islamic State in the world, has been almost completely annihilated and in most Muslim countries today, criminalized.
If you call yourselves educating and alarming the UK society about radical, Saudi-based intolerance and extremism, why are you using my alleged words "to Muslims", "about Muslims" and the reformation and development of their countries and societies, to make your *******ized point? I have visited Saudi Arabia for
Hajj and Umrah, and yes, I have learned some Arabic there, but does that make me a purveyor of what you characterize for your illicit media purposes as a "Saudi - based theology based upon intolerance, separatism, and extremism?
Suppose you or some other "good Christian visited Ireland, and studied their language, would that itself an indictment of your support for what used to be at one time, the very criminal, intolerant, separatist, and
extremist Irish Republican Army? Of couse not! So why the double and blatantly hypocritical standards? I am not, and have never been a supporter or a promoter of Saudi Arabian government policy or
religious rhetoric, and most objective intellectuals in the world of multi-media would know that, except you and your ignorant Islamophobic colleagues.
As for the alleged promise of the bookstore in the Islamic Cultural Centre at the Regents Park Mosque, to stop selling my DVD's based upon your now very infamous "Dispatches Series", titled: "Undercover Mosques", if they made such a promise,(which I have no evidence that they did) that would have been very shameful, cowardly, unIslamic, and unconstitutional!
Firstly, because that bookstore is privately owned, and secondly, because it is the constitutional right of every person in a free and democratic society like the United Kingdom, to express any view they wish, so long as it is not politically seditious, inciting hatred, promoting violence, maligning or attacking any lifestyle or religion, or seeking to commit or conspire to commit, any act of terrorism. I can say without the least
reservation - I have never, and will never knowingly support or advocate any such behavior!
Why doesn't "Channel 4, and your HardCore", "Hard4Cash" Group, collaborate and review some of the hundreds of magazines and periodicals that are sold on newstands and bookstores all over the United Kingdom and Europe, promoting and endorsing, pornography, gambling, pedophilia, bestiality, violent sports, mercenary activities, bigotry, and other forms of unsocial behaviors? Why... because, the simple fact is that it freedom of speech, even though most of it is clearly immoral and socially destructive!
You and your colleagues are not only hypocritical and exploitive bigots, you are audacious liars and opportunistic media vermin, who have never allowed anyone whom you attack, the chance to respond on your actual television platform, which is the subject of my concluding remarks. You has cleverly invited me to respond in writing, to what you will be broadcasting by television. What you don't say, is that you will pick and choose from even that written response, to try to find further flaws and ammunition for your "stealth attack" and character assassination!
It doesn't really matter, what part you choose to mutilate, the response in it's entirety will be broadcast on seventeen television platforms around the world, and made available to hundreds of magazines and periodicals, for their comparison edification. I will utilize my relationship with these media platforms to counter your evil intent.
In addition to that, I am challenging "Channel 4 and Hard4Cash (or HardCore) Ltd. to an unedited open-ended interview, to discuss my views and responses to their media productions, past and present! If you do not accept, hundreds of millions viewers will be aware of your one-sided, prejudicial campaigns against Islam and Muslims!
I await your response, whatever it may be...
Shaykh Khalid Yasin
Chairman
Purpose Media Group

Hmmm, just what is going on in those mosques and just what kind of leaders is that community producing?

Technorati Tags: Muslims,United Kingdom

Job Interview Tips for Muslim Men

Besides the fact that quite a lot of these tips can apply to everybody and to Indians as well, some bits were very amusing.

Interviewer: “So do you have any questions about our company or the position?”

Muslim: “I need off every Friday from 1pm to 3pm. Is there a room I can pray in a couple of times a day? Also sometimes I need to wash my feet in the sink, is that ok? Which restroom should I use? Do you have lotas? Can I borrow the watering jug?”

Interviewer: “Thanks, we’ll be in touch….”

I have never experienced this before but then, working in the city burns every sense of religiosity out of you but makes you into a fervent believer in God.

Technorati Tags: Muslims,Islam,Humour