Catholicism and Violence in Late Chosŏn Korea

You know kannu, I was surprised when I first found out that Korea is a huge Christian country. Seriously. I guess my initial impression was coloured by the fact that both japan and china managed to keep the Christian missionaries at bay. But Korea didn't and has therefore managed to have a huge Christian population. 

Proselytisation has had a bad rap down the years son. With good reason. People have killed each other over which god is better. Heck, people have killed each other whilst belonging to the same bloody religion. See what's happening in Israel to Iraq to India. Maybe they operate on the principle that kill them all, God will sort them out. How weird. 

But it's a salutary exposition on how governments use religion son to keep us under control. And the sad part is, the governments lose control over religion. And then you see the mess that you can witness in the USA to France to uk and in rest of the world. Which is why a strong secular perspective is the only way forward for governments. 

Anyway. Happy reading about a small aspect of Korea. They make the most amazing kimchee. And if I may point out, they are one of the hardest working people in the world. Absolutely gobsmacking. For them to rise from pretty much ruins after the Japanese occupation and then the Korean War to where they are at the moment is simply amazing. Much to learn. 

Love

Baba

Catholicism and Violence in Late Chosŏn Korea - Dissertation Reviews
http://dissertationreviews.org/archives/9089

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A review of The Ambiguity of Violence:  Ideology, State, and Religion in the Late Chosŏn Dynasty,by Franklin Rausch

Why do governments and those who oppose them use violence to advance their aims? What are their justifications for the use of violence? These are some of the questions that Franklin Rausch confronts in his dissertation centered on two case studies in late Chosŏn Korea between the late 18th and early 20th centuries. They involve two famous Catholics, Alexius Hwang Sayŏng and Thomas An Chunggŭn, and it is in its elucidation of the complex history of Catholicism in Korea that this dissertation particularly shines.

How the British and American Missionaries converted Nagaland

this dissertation is a good overview of how Nagaland moved from a tribal animist society to a Christian society, how the rules of nationhood entwined closely with religions aspects and the prospects thereof.

  I quote

John Thomas’ dissertation, Missionaries, Church and the Formation of Naga Political Identity, 1918-1997, historicizes the formation of Naga political identity. It examines the intersection of religious and national identity in the formation of the Naga self by critically evaluating missionary, colonial, and nationalist representations of Naga political identity. Thomas is critical of a particular theological perspective, produced by American and Naga Baptist missionaries that mediated this identity formation. This theological perspective is based on a particular interpretation of Christianity based on a fundamentalist variety of Evangelical Christianity that emphasizes “ahistorical and fundamentalist reading of the Bible; solely interested in questions of personal sin, morality and salvation; aggressively exclusive in relating with secular ideologies and other religious faiths; and yet supportive of preserving the existing status quo” (p. 10). This kind of fundamentalist, evangelica understanding imposes a particular religious identity on national identity “wherein being an evangelical Christian increasingly becomes a pre-requisite towards being a Naga” (p. 10). Therefore, this theology is limited by a narrow focus on individual salvation, which reiterates a colonial logic of “saving the savage,” thereby taming the understanding of the Naga self. As such, it is inadequate to understand the complexities of the social, political and cultural specificity of the Naga situation, Thomas argues.

More crap is being pumped in across the country further fanning flames in AP, Orissa, etc. etc. But then again, they should be allowed to preach. Freedom of speech is absolute. Still you wonder if this is really helpful when such a complex tribal animist persona is now being subsumed into being seen solely via a fundamentalist christian worldview. Sad

Secularism and the British State

I read this and was gobsmacked. A British Minister actively going against the judiciary, telling people to ignore judicial pronouncements and violating the basic principle of separating church from state. Mr. Pickles, you should be ashamed of yourself, pandering to medieval religious claptrap. I quote

Eric Pickles, the Communities and Local Government Secretary, is poised to use new powers to strike down the restriction, which stems from a legal challenge launched to the tradition by an atheist parish councillor.

Mr Justice Ouseley issued a declaration that there was no “lawful” place for prayer during formal proceedings.

It came after Clive Bone, a former member of Bideford Town Council in Devon, brought a legal challenge against the tradition of opening council meetings with prayers.

He argued that the custom left non-believers excluded but the council has twice voted to retain the prayers despite Mr Bone’s complaints.

His case was backed by the National Secular Society which campaigns for the separation of religion and the state.

Yesterday the judge rejected claims that the practice was against Mr Bone’s human rights or amounted to discrimination.

But he nevertheless concluded that it was “not lawful” under the Local Government Act to say prayers as part of formal council meetings.

Secular campaigners hailed it as a victory for equality but Bishops and MPs said the ruling threatened Britain’s Christian heritage.

Mr Pickles said the judgment undermined the “fundamental and hard-fought British liberty” to worship.

"Christianity plays an important part in the culture, heritage and fabric of our nation,” he said.

“Public authorities – be it Parliament or a parish council – should have the right to say prayers before meetings if they wish.”

However he pointed to the Localism Act – already on the statute book and due to come into effect in the next few weeks – which gives councils a new “power of competence” to determine their own procedures.

"[It] allows them to undertake any general action that an individual could do unless it is specifically prohibited by law,” he said.

“Logically, this includes prayers before meetings."

A source close to Mr Pickles said: “We want to give a reassurance to councils that they shouldn’t panic about this and the general power of competence gives them the protection to continue to have prayers if they want to.”

When the act comes into force it will also give Mr pickles the power to strike down the restriction, if needed.

Being religious helps with mental illness recovery

This was a fascinating study. I quote:

There is increasing recognition that a person's spiritual or religious experiences contribute to quality of life (QOL). However, research exploring the relation between spirituality and QOL has mainly been in the context of chronic and life-threatening illnesses and studies examining this important correlate of QOL in chronically mentally ill subjects are sparse. This study aimed to explore the relationship between spirituality and QOL and to investigate if spirituality contributes to other domains of QOL (both physical and psycho-social) in subjects with residual schizophrenia. By using a cross-sectional design 103 patients with residual schizophrenia were assessed on positive and negative syndrome scale and their quality of life, spirituality and religiousness were assessed by WHO Quality of Life-Spirituality, Religiousness and Personal Beliefs (WHOQOL-SRPB) scale. The SRPB domain and all its facets other than spiritual connection correlated significantly (ρ < 0.001) with all other domains of QOL and overall QOL. On regression analysis, inner peace domain of spirituality explained 21.6 to 37.6% of variance of all QOL domains except the domain of level of independence. Spirituality domain explained 33.8% of variance of ‘level of independence’ domain of QOL. Taken together, inner peace and spirituality facets explained 23 to 40% variance of social relationships domain, psychological domain and level of independence domain of QOL. This study suggests that spirituality and religiosity have an important influence on overall QOL of patients with schizophrenia. Hence, besides pharmacological and non-pharmacological management for schizophrenia, clinicians should focus on this aspect and encourage their patients to follow their religious practices and spiritual beliefs.

Now here’s the issue, for example in the UK. When doctors ask patients about their faith, they are slapped down. Here is an example. What was the problem? The doctor suggested some other faith than the chap’s. But because of issues like this, doctors are purely clinical or medical or both. But looking after the mental well being of the patient is left alone because it crosses too many boundaries. I think this is a wrong thing but I suppose that’s the price for living in a secular system.

Secularism, Fundamentalism, or Catholicism? The Religious Composition of the United States to 2043

Where will USA end up in the middle of this century? This article tries to give it a shot.

We provide a cohort-component projection of the religious composition of the United States, considering differences in fertility, migration, intergenerational religious transmission, and switching among 11 ethnoreligious groups. If fertility and migration trends continue, Hispanic Catholics will experience rapid growth and expand from 10 to 18 percent of the American population between 2003 and 2043. Protestants are projected to decrease from 47 to 39 percent over the same period, while Catholicism emerges as the largest religion among the youngest age cohorts. Liberal Protestants decline relative to other groups due to low fertility and losses from religious switching. Immigration drives growth among Hindus and Muslims, while low fertility and a mature age structure causes Jewish decline. The low fertility of secular Americans and the religiosity of immigrants provide a countervailing force to secularization, causing the nonreligious population share to peak before 2043.

Reminds me of Samuel P Huntington’s book on the challenges to America’s National Identity. Mind you, the previous research article’s get out of jail card is “if fertility and migration trends continue”. These are notoriously difficult to predict, but then, the attempts by the Tea Party, anti immigration, reduce taxes and all that which is roiling USA has some roots in this debate as well. This promises to be fascinating.

I dont see the sense of exempting religions from taxes

This idea that religions or even charities should be exempt from taxes is not very clear in my mind. Tax exemptions are basically subsidies. In which somebody foregoes benefits and/or pays more in tax so that the recipient of these subsidies can presumably do something that the government thinks would not be possible without.

So when we give tax exemptions to temples or charities or churches, we are basically saying that their work is beneficial to society. But if that is indeed the case, how do we judge that benefit? Transparently? there is great difficulty in doing so but I tend to disagree, take these benefits away. They benefit from all the other bits that the taxes bring like security, water, electricity, etc.

See this story from Greece. I quote:

The Greek Orthodox Church owns more land than anyone except the state, employs thousands on the public payroll, has a stake in the nation's biggest bank, but campaigners say its tax payments are derisory.

The Greek Orthodox Church has long enjoyed a privileged, some would say cosy, status when it comes to taxes in a country where it is responsible for the sole official religion, with one critic calling its complex finances at best opaque.

But the sovereign debt crisis that has rocked the Greek state, thrown hundreds of thousands of people out of work, and forced painful cuts in salaries, pensions and benefits, has raised fresh questions about the Church's tax position.

More than 100,000 people have joined a Greek Facebook page "Tax The Church", and 29,000 have so far signed an online petition urging the state to harness "the huge fortune of churches" to reduce Greece's crushing budget deficit.

More importantly:

The government is now under intense pressure from the IMF and the EU to sell off public assets, including real estate.

Part of the problem is no one knows how much property the Church has. Greece has no central land registry and the Church's decentralised structure means it does not know what it owns.

"The Greek Church is paying almost nothing in taxes to the Greek state for the total assets that it controls", one senior tax expert, who declined to be named, told Reuters.

From the smallest village in northern Greece, where farmers pay rent to the Church, to the smart suburbs of Athens, where the Church owns prime real estate in the seafront millionaires' neighbourhood of Vouliagmeni, the land holdings are enormous.

Ridiculous.

The Egyptian Gandhi?

I was reading about Mohamed El Baradei who seems to have gotten into bed with the Muslim Brotherhood.

And his visage reminded me of somebody else who got into bed with Islamists, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. He even looked the same.

See? balding head, round specs, large sticky outie ears, mustache. Rebelling against an autocratic government and thus decides to get into bed with the Islamists via the Khilafat Movement. I hope El Baradei remembers his history, this is one thing (Moplah Rebellion) which happened right after the Khilafat Movement kicked off.

Mr. El Baradei, people who sup with the devil should have a long spoon, but I am really disappointed in you, shows you have some rather flexible principles, eh?

ISLAM: SPAIN; MAJORITY AGAINST HEADSCARF, BUT SUPPORT CROSS

This result is a bit screwy, no? I quote:

The majority of Spaniards, independently of ideology, age and social status, are against the wearing of the hijab, the Islamic headscarf, in schools, while almost half accept the presence of crucifixes in classrooms. The results come from a survey carried out throughout Europe, the European Mindset report, which was commissioned by the BBVA Foundation on the subjects of identity and European vision and values. The findings were published today in the Spanish press. The report, which was carried out at the end of 2009, is not related to the case of the Spanish schoolgirl of Moroccan descent, Nejwa Malha, who was sent home from a school in Pozuelo for wearing the hijab. The report shows that 49% of Spaniards and 54% of Europeans approve of crucifixes being worn, while only 24% of those interviewed in Spain and 26% in Europe are against the idea.

Even in a liberal country like Spain, we have a long way to go for secularism to fully take hold. I also wonder how far did the Madrid bombings influence this? But this doesnt seem to be restricted to Spain, another report here:

A Europe marked by contradictions in its relations with religion emerges from the European Mindset report, commissioned by the BBVA Foundation on European identity, vision and values. The report is based on an opinion poll carried out in 12 EU countries, Turkey and Switzerland. In EU countries, 52.6% of the population refuses the wearing of the Islamic veil, as compared to the exhibition of crucifixes in classrooms which is accepted by 54.4% of those interviewed. The report emphasizes that religion remains an element of division in Europe and that religious values continue to represent a key reference, like ethical principles or family structure. In commenting these results, BBVA Foundation Director, Rafael Pardo, reported by El Pais, underlined that ''there are external religious signs which are already a part of the culture of various societies and the majority of people accept those pertaining to the Christian religion''. The study also shows that in forming a judgment concerning the veil, there is no significant influence of ideology, religion, sex or class of interviewees. Young people and highly educated people are also the most permissive on the use of the Muslim veil in class. Behind the average European's opinion are to be found great differences, for example, between Denmark, in which the greatest number of people are in favour of exhibiting religious symbols, and Bulgaria, France or Germany, in which the greater number of people are contrary. On the other hand, 68% of Europeans (68%) declare their affiliation to some religion, even if the level of religious participation varies a lot. Spain is placed in an intermediate position with a medium-low level of religious participation; on the other hand, as concerns religious affiliation, 72% of the Spanish declare they belong to some religion. On euthanasia, the average European acceptance levels out at 6.3 points over 10, reaching 6.8 in Spain, but is higher in Belgium or Switzerland, the only European country where helping someone to commit suicide is not a crime. Abortion divides European public opinion the most: just over half of the Spanish are in favour of abortion, which provokes a greater refusal in countries where religion is more practiced, such as in Catholic Poland, Orthodox Greece or Muslim Turkey.

And the boring Belgians, not having anything else to do, like running their own country with a stable government, decide to go ban the burqa.

Muslim minister-designate calls for state school crucifix ban

Germany, for all its talk about secularism, is still a strongly Christian country. The Bavarian based CSU (which is the sister party to the CDU which operates in the other states) wanted to place a reference to Christianity in the European constitution. And a tax system which has definite leanings towards Christianity with its concept of the church tax. While one can opt out, this system was explicitly designed around Christianity. Then one also wonders why no other religion or sect has managed to get their system of getting tithes through the tax system.  Then, if you dont want to pay the church tax if you were already paying it and declare that you are no longer a Christian, then you have to pay a fee. Now that’s not really freedom of religion, is there if there is a fee attached to changing the religion?

I was drawn to this issue by a visit by few German MP’s to India where they visited Gujarat and made some really interesting comments. Like, and I quote:

"It is the emergence of the Hindu nationalists, who want to make India a country which has no religion other than the Hindus'," she says. "This is, of course, contrary to the constitution. India is a democracy only on paper, I would say, because it lacks an essential feature of democracy: the rule of law."

Hmmm, a bit debatable, but ok, I wouldn't quibble. More:

"The major opposition party, the Bharatiya Janata Party, is virtually the political wing of Hindu nationalist ideology, which has certain connections to National Socialism and Fascism. It should be pointed out in Europe and across the West that one can not simply speak of a democratic, booming, economically prosperous India. One must also say that the country also has human rights problems."

Hmmm, yes, there are connections, but they are fairly minor and not really sure that I see major implications of that kind of stuff, admiring Hitler and all that. Oh!, and obviously Germany has no links to National Socialism, Neo Nazism and and and. But yes, actually all countries have human rights problems and India is no exception.

During their trip, the German MPs claimed that the Chief Minister of Gujarat, Narendra Modi has been described as dictatorial.

But this is where it goes cookoo, Narendra Modi is dictatorial? Ok, this made me think that the German MP’s are a bunch of wooly headed gits, lol. The MP’s take a look at 1-2 instances and not the vast majority of other places where there is NO issue, yes, we do have intra religion issues, but its getting under control. But Dictatorial? get away. So I wrote back on an email when somebody responded that they cant see the irony of a German talking about all this:

A Christian mp from a Christian party from a state which has Christianity as the official state religion coming to India funded by a Christian NGO talking about freedom of religion calling an elected chief minister as a dictator. And you can't see the irony?

But back to Germany. German school rooms also have Crucifixes in them. You as a teacher are not allowed to wear a headscarf if you are a Muslim or wear robes if you follow Osho. And then I read this, this promises to raise the proverbial brown organic matter storm in Germany. I quote:

“Christian symbols do not belong in state schools. School should be a neutral place,” said Aygül Özkan, who is a member of the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and will be made Lower Saxony's social minister next week. She also stressed her support for the ban on headscarves in such schools – as well as accepting that church schools would be an exception from a crucifix ban…..

She also has asked the Turkish Muslim minority to integrate even more, and what was the result? Pretty typical..

She has received several threats since being picked to become social minister by the CDU, prompting the state police to provide her with protection, including body guards.

But anyway, I think this issue is going to be fun in Germany.

No religious structures on public land

This was very long overdue and something that every secular Liberal Democracy has to take on board. Keep religion firmly in the private area. You want to worship your god, your pasta, your goddesses or your wood, then you do it in your own time, in your place. I quote:

Stating that state government cannot let “personal faith” eat up public space for fear of provoking religious sentiments, the Supreme Court ruled on Monday that no new constructions of “temples, mosques, churches and gurdwaras will be allowed on public parks, public streets and public spaces.”
“The court is going to be very strict on this ban, even if it gives rise to a law and order problem. We are making it abundantly clear that any fresh construction is banned,” ruled the Bench led by Justices Dalveer Bhandari and A K Patnaik.
“Non-compliance with the order, whatever be the problem within a state, you (state government concerned) will be in great difficulty,” the Bench cautioned a battery of standing counsel representing various state governments.
The Bench also passed a sweeping order that no courts in the country will entertain any complaints against the apex court’s ban, thus closing all avenues for protests by religious groups or private individuals. “Regarding the gravity of the matter, we direct that no order which is inconsistent with our order of ban be passed,” the court ruled.
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“Chief Secretaries must ensure total compliance of our orders, any breach will be viewed seriously by this court,” warned the Bench. The fate of the existing unauthorised structures will be decided on a “case to case basis” by the state governments.
Today’s order follows an earlier ruling passed on September 29, when the apex court had banned construction of unauthorised religious places of worships on public land. The Bench passed the order after finding that the states had hardly taken any action to implement the ban.
The Bench has asked Chief Secretaries to either file affidavits within six weeks swearing that the ban has been implemented in every district of their state, or be present in court with an explanation.

Much ado about nothing

As you might have heard, the ECHR has ruled against the use of crucifix in classrooms. But the Italians are not taking it well, with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi saying that it will ignore the ruling. The Italians, with 84% majority, want crucifixes to remain on the classroom walls. And now the anti immigrant party, Northern League, is getting into the act as well.

A similar thing happened in Spain as well way back in 1982 but nothing has been done to implement the order still yet.

Basically, I cannot see how you can avoid it. Just like abortion has become legal, for a liberal democracy to take positions for a particular religion will not be justifiable at all. This promises to produce quite a lot of hot air. Mind you, God is everywhere, but apparently the crucifix is a symbol and weaker minds like to see it. Welcome to Europe. Here’s the amusing bit about the survey as reported by Reuters. I quote:

Those in favour included many who are not practicing Catholics. Some 68 percent of those who said they never attended Mass said they still wanted the crucifixes to stay in schools.

heh. So what’s the reason? cultural reasons? So now its become a decoration?

Spain removes religious symbols from public buildings

Quite an interesting story here. Good as well. Religious symbology in this day and age on public buildings can and do cause issues. This will also show up the single religion countries as well as the religious fundamentalists that they cannot come and bang on about religious rights and shove them down my throat and be a pain in the butt and and and. I quote:

 

The Spanish Government is to abolish all religious symbols from schools and public buildings, with the exception of symbols included in works which have historic, artistic or cultural value, said Justice Minister Francisco Caamano in an interview with Europa Press, cited by the media today. The law, which will include the principle of freedom of conscience for the first time, above all where conscientious objections are concerned, will be put forward by the executive after the summer break. ''Our idea is that no religious symbols should exist in public schools, that there is a clear separation between religion and public life and the secularism of the State'', said the minister. ''Although symbols and effigies, which make up part of our heritage, have historical-artistic value and are kept inside our public centres, will not be destroyed''.

The law will not affect rooted traditions such as nativity scenes, and it will not be forbidden for students to wear a crucifix to school.The Spanish Government is to abolish all religious symbols from schools and public buildings, with the exception of symbols included in works which have historic, artistic or cultural value, said Justice Minister Francisco Caamano in an interview with Europa Press, cited by the media today.

The law, which will include the principle of freedom of conscience for the first time, above all where conscientious objections are concerned, will be put forward by the executive after the summer break. ''Our idea is that no religious symbols should exist in public schools, that there is a clear separation between religion and public life and the secularism of the State'', said the minister. ''Although symbols and effigies, which make up part of our heritage, have historical-artistic value and are kept inside our public centres, will not be destroyed''. The law will not affect rooted traditions such as nativity scenes, and it will not be forbidden for students to wear a crucifix to school.

Spain’s relationship with the church is structural, very tightly tied in and has a very long history behind it. Here’s an interesting article on it. Spain’s religious and ethnic makeup is also changing. Only 3.2 per cent of Spain's population was foreign-born in 1998. In 2007 it was 13.4 per cent. This kind of separation of state from church will definitely help in managing this transition.

RAMADAN:ITALY,LOMBARDY DAY LABOURERS OBLIGED TO DRINK WATER

When religion and health/safety crash directly into each other, religion seems to lose. First was when the French lady was banned from swimming because staff said that it was unhygienic.

 

 

Looking at the outfit above, i am not really very sure what’s the fun in swimming in that, but on the other hand, i can see somewhat the issue with health and safety. If i am in a public pool and mind you, this outfit does not look anything like the full body swimming suit like shown below, then yes, i can be asked to leave.

 

or this:

But if fully clothed people are allowed, then this should work as well:

doesnt really work, does it?

Its like the arguments Sikhs have with wearing a turban when helmets are compulsory on bikes. See here for an example. Health and Safety overrules requirements for religious observances. And you end up with a silly situation like this one. 

I quote:

A police force spent £100,000 on a failed attempt to find protective headgear that fits over Sikh officers' turbans. West Midlands Police started its search after one Sikh constable decided he wanted to join the counter-terrorist Operational Support Unit.

The man, thought to be in his mid-20s, was refused a place because he was unable to fit the necessary helmet and respirator over his turban and beard, both of which are requirements for strict adherents to his faith. According to a police source, the unnamed constable claimed he was being discriminated against and was then assigned the task - while on full pay - of sourcing new equipment that would fit.

A helmet and respirator would be needed for certain counter terrorist operations to guard against possible chemical and biological weapons.  The officer contacted manufacturers across the world to see if they could adapt their gear but after 18 months his search ended in vain and he was restored to regular duties.

A few weeks later he is said to have gone on long-term sick leave suffering from stress. The source, who estimated the total cost of the failed project, including the officer's wages, at £100,000, said: 'This was a shocking waste of taxpayers' cash.'

And now, the final example is from Italy where labourers are being forced to drink water during Ramadan. I quote:

Muslim day labourers working on Mantova melon and tomato farms will be obliged to drink water even during the month of Ramadan, as decided by the Mantova Committee for Safety in Agriculture, made up of representatives from the Coldiretti and Confederazione Italiana dell'Agricoltura agricultural-entrepreneurial organisations and the CGIL, CISL and UIL trade unions.

The document, in reference to the legislative decree number 81 of April 9, 2008, "obliges" Muslim farm labourers to drink water during the work day under the sun to avoid heat strokes even in the month of Ramadan, which this year will begin around August 20. Those not following this regulation "will be temporarily suspended from activity and, if recurring, will be fired". Agricultural organisations have also begun handing out informational brochures to workers in four languages to explain the possible risks from sun stroke. "We made this decision because we want to safeguard workers' health as much as possible," said Roberto Cagliari, Coldiretti director and chairman of the Safety Committee. "Last year, the refusal by many workers to drink during the month of Ramadan in the melon fields created a large number of problems."

The representative of the Muslim community in Mantova, Ben Mansour, is against the decision: "No work contract and no judicial regulation provides for the obligation to drink during Ramadan. If Muslim workers are fired for this reason, we will raise an objection. If a Muslim does not feel well then he can take a break and if he feels that it is not simply a fleeting sensation but something more serious then he can drink, since it would then be his decision which no one can impose on him."

Go figure. When Health and Safety has managed to defeat individual rights and liberalism, religions are simply no contest.

Only tax payers allowed to meet God

This story is just fascinating and shows how secularism and religion do not work together specially when we are talking about liberal democracies. So here we go, we have a house of God (to wit, a Church), which has taxes and tithes associated with it. And as it happens, people who do not tithe flood into the church during Christmas and take up all the seats. So they get upset. Now, I simply do not understand this idea of a state funded church, specially in Europe, but there you go.

Solution seems to be to get people to actually bring their tax returns with them when they come into the church.

Here's another solution, get the church to actually run itself based upon donations, why is the government getting involved? And if it does get involved, would it also do the same thing for Mosques, Gurudwaras and Temples? I dont think so. Hence state institutionalised discrimination. But how does this fit in with the idea of Jesus not liking money lenders, the prohibition against usury and all that? Gosh...

Technorati Tags: Secularism,Germany,Christianity

Orthodox Jews vote for ignorance

I found this entire episode completely perplexing. So this is what I understand. The ultra orthodox Jews in Israel already enjoy a whole host of exceptions that are not available to other Israeli's. The fact that this kind of intellectual hypocrisy and stupidity is evident is not surprising, any country created on the basis of religion will keep on having to take decisions which make people turn around and say, "are you guys mad or what?". This intersection between religion and politics is always contentious, but certain decisions that the state makes can be seriously stupid.

So, in short, the Israeli government will be forced to fund the studies of 24,000 students who will now be exempt from acquiring any knowledge of useless and way too stupid subjects such as English, Mathematics, Biology, computers, etc.

We see this behaviour day in and day out. Every time a country steps into the religious arena, it creates a boo boo. (Not that education is a panacea, check this out, for all those who think that educating people will reduce support for terrorism, a recent survey found that Almost third of Muslim students on Britain's campuses believe killing in the name of religion can be justified) And I have no reason to believe that these ultra-orthodox Jews, with their "special" education, are any different.

But what about the state? Surely the state has a duty to make sure that all its students are educated? If you mistreat your child physically, the state will take your child away. But here we have a situation that some idiot seniors actually are forcing the state to keep their children in ignorance. I do not mind that they are home schooled or what have you, but here's the amazing thing, you not only force the state to support absolutely useless mouths but force the state to perpetuate that.

Here's a research paper from the Bank of Israel and Ben-Gurion University that I found (unfortunately in Hebrew, but the English abstract was alarming). I quote some excerpts:

Haredi poverty is exceptionally high, with a share of 20% of the Israeli poor and a population share half that size. Its major causes are very high Haredi fertility (a population growth of 6% p.a.), reducing household income per capita and the mother’s earning capacity; its independent education system’s neglect (particularly among boys) of materially important subjects for future earning capacity such as Mathematics, English and digital skills; and low labor-force participation of Haredi men, due to prolonged learning in religious seminars (Yeshiva), often deeply into the prime working age.

Some more background here, but it was seriously strange to read about how somebody can actively stop their children from learning and a supposedly liberal and intelligent state will allow hundreds of thousands of students to grow up ignorant and a drag on the citizens of the state going forward. Truly, sometimes religion does sound like a virus. Makes people do something very strange indeed.

Technorati Tags: Schooling,Education,Religion,Judaism,Israel

India drops the ball on protection of freedom of speech

Now this is something that I read about and discussed in India. Two incidents both driven by the howling fanatics and blithering morons. But first, the Hindu Government  idiots on the Gujarat side who took umbrage on an article written by Ashis Nandy. They went and launched a criminal case against him. Well, the basic anti-intellectualism of these goons is very clear, anybody who has even the basics of civilisation would know to protect freedom of speech, but lets not use the word civilisation and these idiots in the same sentence.

And then, lest you forget, there is the other side. A conference by the Ahmadiya community was canceled by the Congress government in Andhra Pradesh. This party, for those who have forgotten, are the true fathers of communalism in India, have actually committed genocide on Sikhs and now turn around and pander to Islamist extremists by banning conferences run by people who are objected to by some other foaming morons who think that only they have the right to define what a religion can or should look like.

So what do you end up with? Two of the main parties in India, the BJP and Congress I, both pandering to extreme religious notions. Welcome to the land of India, full of morons in white, pandering to rage boys in the Hindu and Muslim worlds. We have seen the enemy and they are us.

Technorati Tags: freedom of Speech,India,Secularism

More rage boy story about MF Husain

I have to admit, I do not understand modern art and MF Husain's paintings are no different. The fact that somebody can pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for this is beyond my comprehension, but then somebody paid even more for a preserved shark. Go figure. You know what I think of those varied Hindu gangs who run around crying about injury to Hindu feelings. Clowns, all of them. No, goons, they do not know about Hinduism and are basically criminals of the lowest order. But that's besides the point.

What is more worrying is that that I got copied on an email yesterday from a group called as Association of Indian Muslims of America. This email purported to be a letter to the editor of India Abroad, saying that MF Husain should withdraw such controversial paintings because somebody found them offensive. I quote:

If some practicing Hindus object to such apparently indecent portrayal of their goddesses can we say they are wrong?  We think not.

Well, we think yes, and this association is a classic example of the reason why Indian Muslims are still facing challenges. Presumably this group is full of very professional Indian Muslims, doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. Education has been pumped into them. One expects liberal skills to come to the fore, but no, these chaps actually take off on liberal thought. I quote:

I realize that some ultra-liberal Indians including Hindus may not mind such paintings, but clearly such paintings do hurt the religious sentiments and sensibilities of a wide majority of Hindus and they feel offended.

The Hindu's did not feel offended at all, it was only when it was spun after decades and taken out of context. I am not so sure what that mean, ultra liberal Indians. You see, this was not done for the sake of the sentiments of the common Hindus, but to pander to their own medieval thought processes. In other words, this group's thought process is the same as that of the goons who protest against MF Husain. So if they join hands with the low pond life rage boys of the Hindu right, you see, they will not complain when the next time some Muslim idiot threatens to behead some Muslim or Hindu who expresses his freedom of speech or religion. You see, secularism is one of the crucial aspects of liberalism and individual rights, and that is why these groups sit very uneasily with secularism and liberalism

Mind you, MF Husain is no different, he refuses to paint Muslim religious leaders in the same way, but that's his problem of being incoherent and silly. Some of his justifications for painting what he did were seriously silly, but that's fine, he is an artist, dont care about his reasons, he has a right to paint what he wants.

This is the reason why I am very jaundiced by this and other groups. They are not liberal at all, they are not modern and they are certainly not really secular. I am very surprised that they even wrote something like this, very disappointing.

Technorati Tags: secularism,freedom of speech,India,Muslims,Hinduism

More on who speaks for Islam

Remember my previous post when I expressed my sorrow that British Muslims and their organisations spend more time in slamming each other? And when they do get together, they spend their time on silly stuff like this. And again it happened. A new organisation has been set up,  British Muslims for Secular Democracy, something that is very creditable indeed, but fairly typically and one could have predicted it, up pops somebody or even here to say that they are not part of Islam or that they do not represent British Muslims. The amusing thing is, who are these guys to say that? whoops, I am not supposed to ask that, am I? Truly tragic. How on earth do the personalities matter? Look at the argument, the communication. Again, fairly typical, and tragically something that is very common.

Technorati Tags: Secularism,United Kingdom,Muslims,Islam

More thoughts on why Ken lost

I saw this link from Sunny's Page. I read this in the fullness and the comments as well. I have to admit that I did not read this before, seems to be published when I was travelling and in any case, had bigger issues (like the most gigantically complex PMI in the infrastructure world to manage, hehehehe) to worry about.

Well, my first impression is that each and every of these leaders have lost their senses. I am deeply and bitterly disappointed in them. And look at the great and good, even Tariq Ramadan has signed this. You know what I think of him and these other people did exactly the same mistake as Tariq did. This is a secular country and they played the religious card. What does that make them? confused and stupid at best and frankly Neanderthal and stupid at the worst.

And you know what? this perhaps represents the cream of British Muslim Society. And we are relying on these muppets to address the problems of British Muslim extremism? These chaps ARE part of the problem. One good thing is that Soumaya Ghannoushi is going to leave the city now that Boris is going to run the city, hehehehe. Oooooo, the fun times of promising something in print, she will never live it down, lol. I presume she will go and live in that liberal heartland of Saudi Arabia in the Nadz region? She got hauled over the coals in the comments. Poor girl. But a clear example of never letting facts get in the way of her opinions, hehehehe.

My second impression is, what on earth is Labour doing with a bunch of idiots like this supporting them? Do they not see the damage they have done? I mean, forget about the country and normal citizens, its very clear that their interests in that direction are near about zero. But look at the damage pandering to these religious buffoons and morons has done to the party, the party that ostensibly supports social liberalism is in bed with a bunch of reactionary right wing religious buffoons who do not understand modern life, liberalism nor secularism if it bit their nose. But they will not junk them, they will not clarify them, and they will go quietly into the night.

As for this group, get a clue, get a life and most importantly, get some good brain cells which can help you get some good PR help, spectacular own goals like this increase not decrease problems for us. No, election of Ken is NOT good for Londoners, so its good that he will piss off, I want a mayor of London, not a foreign minister of UK. He has done many good things, but no, enough is enough, pandering to minorities is wrong. But thankfully, these leaders are basically blowhards, let me quote a comment from the CiF page.

The Muslim Council of Britain has the highest approval rating of any Muslim organisation in Britain, and only 6% of Muslims though it represented their views. (It's telling that the MCB haven't endorsed this letter, evidently the shooting of Charles Demenez still rankles, and it's hard to argue that you are the "new Jews" if you are campaigning for the local Gauleiter)

In the same poll the Muslim Association of Britain managed a 1% rating. The rest of these outfits are political plankton that would struggle to be recognised through a microscope.

Indeed, many of them are the same small group people, a fact they've tried to disguise by using all their nameplates at once. The UK Islamic Mission (UKIM), Dawatul Islam, Islamic Society of Britain, and Islamic Forum Europe are the same thing - a little Maudidist clique (yeah, the theologian who argued it was Islamic to enslave and rape women).

The British Muslim Initiative refuses to detail its membership due to its small size, but Ismail Patel and Ghannoushi both write for it, yet appear here in separate capacities to try and inflate the numbers. IslamExpo is a creature of the Muslim Association of Britain and Ghannoushi is a former director or research for it.

The Cordoba Foundation has Anas Al Tikriti as its chief executive and apparently only member (its website is "relaunching" sometime never) who was formerly a leading light in the Muslim Association of Britain. Azzam Al Tamini's Institute of Islamic Political Thought is another one-man band, but it comes in handy when you need the appearance of numbers. Azzam is also an official spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain.

This is the problem, the media give these bunch of clown the oxygen of publicity, they dont do sweet sod all for the Muslim minority but they sure as hell as increase the Islamophobia coefficient in British Society. Oh! lets not forget that these groups, by and large, are howling bigots, specially against the gay and lesbian community. And they violated the charity commission's guidelines that any charity cannot take political positions.

I voted for Ken both times before. The first time because I wanted London to be out of the clutches of those pathologically centralising gits in Whitehall and Labour Party Headquarters. The second time, he spoke the language of improving the transport system. But this time? no, thank you. And guess what, Ken? It is such a telling that that a so called Buffoon got elected instead of you. What does that tell you about you, your policies, your supporters and the ordinary electorate? That a majority of voters actually felt not that good...

Technorati Tags: Islam,Muslims,United Kingdom,London,Elections,Secularism

Let us fragment our societies further

Here we go again. The government, in this case, Indian government, did the right thing, but forbidding any teaching of religion. But Jains want to teach their children about their religion and thus are going minority status. Let us further fragment our society.

Technorati Tags: Jainism,India,Secularism